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The Sun Also Rises (Forum Locked Forum Locked)
 Ernest Hemingway Message Boards : The Sun Also Rises
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fredp
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 11:33am | IP Logged Quote fredp

SagarB wrote:
If this is the case then, why doesnt he give some positive ideas for ways to change the lost generation into somthin which pleases him?

Maybe im just confused.....

Like I said, hemmingway drew on his writing style from his experience as a journalist; he didn't necessarily present a solution, just showed the problem.



Edited by fredp on 16áNovemberá2005 at 11:34am
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Brian F
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 11:44am | IP Logged Quote Brian F

lost generation can be applied to F. Scott fitzgerald int hat his novel The Great Gatsby deals with a man, Jay Gatsby, who is also disillusioned by the war. He is trying to live an extravagant life to hide his past. This is done to impress Daisy Buchanan, his former lover.

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RTWilks
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 9:32pm | IP Logged Quote RTWilks

  Refering to Sean's post, of course the people go out and drink and do something inbetween drinking, we may view this as lazy today but at the time they lost generation felt that this was the only thing to do. They were almost in a state of shock from the war, the world around them for changing and they did not follow. This was their angst against everyone else, to the point of being ridiculous, as in The Great Gatsby where the main characters never seem to do something but go on in this mindless alcohol bingeing.

    As Samantha states about as I lay dying by Faulkner, there is a great corralation between that and the Great Gatsby also as the main characters seem to just have problem and crisis one after another, how friends and family and just a mess, a terrible mess.

    As fred led on to, the reason for the vague descriptions is his writing style, the lost generation as sean defined, more or less has adults doing "nothing" but the drinking and such.
    Even though war intrigued Hemingway, he continues to show how disgusted war has made his main characters in The Sun Also Rises.
    Sagar, he wasnt positive as although he found war interesting, war was not something that was positive, it tore a generation apart. He does not try to kid his audience, as fred said hes not the end all to problem, through the storyline and characters he can show the effects of war without stated from himself.

http://users.rowan.edu/~lindman/lost_generation.html


http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/lit-med/lit-med-db/webdocs/webde scrips/faulkner1012-des-.html
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ariyanb
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 9:36pm | IP Logged Quote ariyanb

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rolson
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 11:36pm | IP Logged Quote rolson

I'm not 100% sure if I'm supposed to answer both forums or not, but hey, what can it hurt? OK, here it goes:

Well, we have all established that the lost generation is a period of time that war soldiers came to Paris, with the images of pain and suffering fresh in their minds. Their life ended for them when they stepped onto the battlefield. This belief was accepted by many, and it does make sense. After going through WW1, who would be motivated to do much? The emotional scars of seeing your fellow soldiers fall painfully is irremovable. So, many tried to end their lives early, or do activities close to it. They would get drunk, I believe, to end the pain temporarily. It never really left them though. It was like a tick, except it can't be removed. It keeps draining you without end, and for many people returning from the biggest war of the time, getting drunk, or being dodgey (doing things they wouldn't normally do, such as gambling, not having a serious relationship, etc.) gave them a sense of selflessness that would basically give them a kind of out of body experience. They are not living anymore after this war, and few authors like Hemmingway kept the dream alive.

       People like Hemmingway and Fitzgerals defied this so called "lost generation", refusing to let the haunting images of war become permanent. Hemmingway suppossedly saved lives with shrapnel in his leg during the war, and then was rewarded by the Italians for saving men. So, he had a little more of a sheltered view on the war since he received so much honor and prestige. Still, he was there and involved in the war and saw everything, but Hemmingway was an optimist. He refused to give in. He came back home, started a family, got work and became very successful. So really, there is no lost generation in Hemmingway's mind. His thought is that it is only a lost generation if you let the war affect you. He didn't. Instead, he criticized the lost generation in TSAR. He shows characters such as Brett flouncing around with no point, leaving and having affairs without concern, breaking people's hearts left and right, including Jake's, making Jake hate her. Robert Cohn is doing nothing with his life, and everyone including Jake makes fun of him and dislikes him. Other not so major characters, such as the count, are out at 4 in the morning driving around town drunk with a girl who knows she is marrying someone else, and Jake was annoyed by him too. See a pattern? Well, I think that Jake represents Hemmingway, and the characters listed above, along with others in the book, represent the lost generation theme. Jake (Hemmingway) is caught up in the rut of this depressing time, when he is trying to make something out of himself. He wants to work when Cohn comes to take him to lunch. He is dedicated to his job. He makes the most out of each day. He tries to establish a relationship with Brett instead of a fling, he goes to Spain, prepared for the bull fights, and fulfilled his wish of fishing in Spain with Bill. He didn't stay with Cohn to wait for Brett and Micheal; he doesn't wait for the lost generation. He does things for himself, by himself, with the help of no one. If everyone else is going to waste their lives, fine, but not Jake. Not Hemmingway.

 

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chuckm
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 11:59pm | IP Logged Quote chuckm

In order to understand the "Lost Generation" more clearly, I think it's important to remember the changes taking place in U.S. in the 1920s. For one, the gap between the rich and the poor widened dramatically, causing a serious upsurge of materialism in wealthy Americans. As people were driven to make more and more money, their sense of morals was severely distorted, and sometimes completely destroyed. In The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald uses New York City as a symbol of the growing immoralities in business (Gatsby himself is a bootlegger). The culture and the cities of America accommodated the businessman much more than it did other professions.

For these reasons, artists and writers such as Fitzgerald and Hemingway moved to cities like Paris and London, where they could express themselves more freely in their literature.  In Europe, they were able to set themselves apart from the consumeristic society of America, and their work was accepted much more by the European culture. In The Great Gatsby, Fitzgerald uses Nick to echo his own dissent for America's obsession with money when Nick decides to return to the Midwest and discontinues his work in the bond business.

http://www.uta.fi/~johanna.e.jarvinen/GG2002.html 

http://www.fcps.k12.va.us/westspringfieldhs/academic/english /1project/99gg/99gg6/lit.htm

http://www.bellmore-merrick.k12.ny.us/grgatsb.html

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rolson
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Posted: 17áNovemberá2005 at 12:16am | IP Logged Quote rolson

whoops- here's my websites!

http://ok.essortment.com/whatlostgenera_nkj.htm

http://www.lostgeneration.com/hemfaq.htm#how

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jeremyc
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Posted: 17áNovemberá2005 at 1:17pm | IP Logged Quote jeremyc

dictionary.reference.com says simply that the lost generation was the sum of the young people coming of age during and shortly after World War I, esp. disillusioned by the number of people killed in the war, which is simple enough to be a working definition. John Dos Passos, William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and Ernest Hemingway all contemporaries, had to deal with this disillusionment. Hemingway in particular, perhaps Dos Passos a little bit, and certainly F. Scott Fitzgerald all show their disillusionment in humanity with their works - Hemingway through his disregard for life, and Fitzgerald by showing that he was convinced at the corruption of man. TSAR was written in 1926, right after that big WWI, that probably affected Hemingway just like everybody else.
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Brian L.
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Posted: 17áNovemberá2005 at 10:19pm | IP Logged Quote Brian L.

        There are so many great posts about this topic. Like many people, I think that the lost generation represented a group of writers that rejected traditional society, and preferred the lavish lifestyle that could be found in Europe. After reading up on the Life of John Dos Passos, William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and Ernest Hemingway, it is clear that they were all influenced by the war in some way. For example, John Dos Passos focused on the political characteristics of war in his writings, and documentaries. The term the lost generation can definitely be applied to John Dos Passos, William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and Ernest Hemingway; they all rejected the traditional societal ways, and lived life on the edge. They washed their sorrows in alcohol, and expressed their feelings in their writing.

     Five years before the publication of The Sun Also Rises, Hemingway had moved to Paris, and had become involved with the remainder of the lost generation. The Sun Also Rises was first published in 1926; at the time, Hemingway was meeting up with his friends on a daily basis. Because of the applause that Hemingway received from the media, and public about The Sun Also Rises, he had become very popular. His popularity allowed him to become the voice of the lost generation. In The Sun Also Rises, Hemingway voices all of his opinions about war, the actions of people, and society.


Edited by Brian L. on 17áNovemberá2005 at 10:54pm
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Brian L.
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Posted: 17áNovemberá2005 at 10:22pm | IP Logged Quote Brian L.

Oh yeah, my source. Here it is!

http://www.csupomona.edu/~rljohnson/Professional/DosPassos.h tml

Edited by Brian L. on 17áNovemberá2005 at 10:43pm
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