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Tommy H
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Posted: 15 November 2005 at 1:11pm | IP Logged Quote Tommy H

Like explained in the biography, people during this time when from living in a quiet town with nothing interesting happening to picking up parts of other human beings off the ground and then back to living in Quiettown, USA.

It is natural human behavior to have a shock after drastic changes in scenery like this. Heck, if a had to go through what Hemmingway went through, I probably need a couple of drinks too.

The lost generation is simply people needing something else to do to cope with the changes that had taken place in their life.

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NoraA
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Posted: 15 November 2005 at 1:12pm | IP Logged Quote NoraA

Like others, I think that the Lost Generation is mainly a group of writers- people who expressed their sorrows through their work. I can't help but be confused by Hemingway. In his biography, it mentions that he is essentially bored of Oak Park, especially after the war. I understand this, because after going through WWI and having the introduction to that lifestyle like he did, it isn't surprising he matured a lot- he had no other choice. However, at the same time, is his idea of entertainment partying and drinking night after night? Is he trying to ignore the pain by keeping himself busy with the same old routine? What is he trying to prove through this- that the only way to survive through this generation is ignore the problems around them? Or is he telling us that this is the thing you don't want to do?

Either way, I don't like TSAR so far. Maybe I'm just not used to the style of writing...I still can't get over the lack of flow, I guess. Although I do like the title, because it can sort of act like a wake up call to people who relate to the characters of the book- even though life must be pretty bad if you can't be with the woman you love [Jake],  there's always tomorrow.

 

http://ok.essortment.com/whatlostgenera_nkj.htm

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fredp
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Posted: 15 November 2005 at 1:20pm | IP Logged Quote fredp

SeanM wrote:
they wake up, they have a drink, they go to work for a few hours, they have another drink, they go to lunch, they have yet another drink, they go out to dinner, they drink again, they go out partying, they have a few more drinks, they go to bed, and then the whole thing repeats day after day! Apparently the lost generation thinks that it can drown away its sorrows in booze. They constantly move around from place to place finding no relief from their daily woes. I think that the characters are completely immature and they try to act "grown up" by doing adult things, like drinking! Maybe hemingway has the right idea, that you can't run away from your sorrows, and that you have to face your problems head on, like a bull fighter!

The whole point of the lost generation is that they are directionless; disillusioned because of what they saw happen in the war, they don't know how to deal with any sort of real problem. They are rich (or at least claim to be) and are young and merely try to live life as much as they think they can.

That is why Hemmingway is so barebones about his descriptions; it didn't matter what these people looked like, because they were meant to draw his main demographic (which was the other members of the lost generation) into associating themselves with the characters.

And Hemmingway wasn't really presenting a solution, a moral lesson in his work; it was a depiction of what was happening, drawn from his experience as a journalist. He represented, through minimal adjectives, what he felt his generation as a whole was going through.

If anyone has seen  Bright Young Things, both Fitzgerald and Hemingway remind me of the movie; they depict writers and journalists in London, rich and thriftless. It also has a dark mood throughout the movie, a same sense of hopelessness and despair that those authors, especially Fitzgerald, arrived at by the end of their novels.

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Nickd
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Posted: 15 November 2005 at 1:22pm | IP Logged Quote Nickd

The lost generation represents the group of men that became mentally disturbs by the events of World War I. They lost all hope and often wandered away from “normal” actions from people of the time. Not only do the authors, John Dos Passos, William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and Ernest Hemingway portray their characters by having this lost generation mentality, but they were noticed as the lost generation themselves. Gertrude Stein recognized a bunch of American authors in Europe as the Lost Generation. This post World War I group was also known as Génération au Feu, the Generation of Fire.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Generation

 

http://www.historyguide.org/europe/lost-gen.html



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Mrs Weisgerber
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Posted: 15 November 2005 at 2:08pm | IP Logged Quote Mrs Weisgerber

okay okay already.  I think Samantha and Sean make a great suggestion.  Let's put the topic of this novel on an open road.  See the "is it important" post as a prompt for other directions.  Do not post information from wikipedia, please.  That source is not authoritative, credible, or necessarily current.  Chop chop.
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PaulineB
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Posted: 15 November 2005 at 7:26pm | IP Logged Quote PaulineB

I think the lost generation is the group of soldiers who fought in war I. These soldiers thought that this war was going to be the war to end all wars. They thought that their cause was noble, so many middle class men and other men signed up for the war for glory, but what they found was the horror and death. When these men returned from the war, they were not praised, they did not find glory and they were lost. Hemingway’s novel describes these men and their travels. For example, Jake and Robert are traveling through Europe after feeling depressed from the war. They are trying to rediscover themselves through their travels. Jake has traveled to Pamplona to regain praise by fighting the bulls and to drink their fears away.  "We're none of us sober (Hemingway, 147)" According to the biography on this page, Hemingway wanted to fight in the war, but was incapable of doing so because of his poor vision. I think that this novel was written it depict Hemingway’s isolation because he doesn’t even share the same experiences as the other men his age, he didn’t fight in the war. He is lost even more than the lost than the lost generation.

 



Edited by PaulineB on 21 November 2005 at 5:06pm
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LizE
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Posted: 15 November 2005 at 7:56pm | IP Logged Quote LizE

There is a working definition for the lost generation. It is basically the loss of moral direction after WWI because they didn't understand how good people could die so early in their lives and so horribly. Before this the general concensus had been that if you were a good person, good things would happen to you. But after the war, where so many good people had died, that way of thinking was... defeated. This lead to a generation of people who were, for lack of a better word 'lost'. Whatever moral guidelines they had been taught to follow no longer seemed relative to life, and the generation attempted to mask their depression with an 'illusion of happiness'.
I'm sorry to say Pauline that I do not agree with your statements regarding how Hemingway was "more lost than the lost generation."
You say that Hemingway wanted to fight in the war, but he couldn't fight in it. This is true. But he did find a way to contribute as an ambulance driver. The first day he was there a factory exploaded and he was forced to carry the mutilated corpses of the victims to a make-shift morgue. I would say that is a similar experience to that of a soldier. He was even awarded the Italian Silver Medal for Valor. I would say that qualifies him to be just as much a part of the lost generation as any other soldier.
I'm sorry I hope you don't think I'm being too harsh... that's just my opinion of what you said.

I find it amusing that it says in the FAQ (which you can probably tell that I did) it mentions that Hemingway considered no generation lost and that he was very distressed at the focus which everyone was putting on that phrase.

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brittanyd
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Posted: 16 November 2005 at 10:36am | IP Logged Quote brittanyd

Lost generation is basically people  around the time of World War I (mostly the artist, writers, poets, etc. who had a part in the war).  These people use what they feel after the war and about the war to create their art somewhat based on their feelings.  Hemmingway is part of that lost generation because of what he has seen happening in the world after the war and in his books made around that time such as "The Sun Also Rises".  There is lack of hope and denial in the writing and the characters expresses the same lack of hope and denial being expressed within Hemingway. 

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ChrisM
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Posted: 16 November 2005 at 10:44am | IP Logged Quote ChrisM

The Lost Generation is a bunch of authors, including Hemmingway, who felt the effects of WWI. Through there works they expressed there feelings of WWI.  Jake living in Paris then traveling to Spain tried to "rediscover himself."  As Liz says Hemmingway had to "carry the mutilated corpses of the victims to a make-shift morgue."  I would have to say that this experience is worse than that of a soldier.  A soldier does have a rough experience, but the soldier doesn't have to physically touch the corpse which could be more traumatic.

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SagarB
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Posted: 16 November 2005 at 10:49am | IP Logged Quote SagarB

I understand that the lost generation is the group of people after and around the time of World War 1(cuz every single person has said so!!!) but why does Hemingway display a lack of hope for his generation? i think he seems to be trying to change this pattern by writing the book? I'm assuming that he wrote the book to show what was going on in society; and persuade people to change the course of things.

If this is the case then, why doesnt he give some positive ideas for ways to change the lost generation into somthin which pleases him?

Maybe im just confused..... 

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