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Islands in the Stream (Forum Locked Forum Locked)
 Ernest Hemingway Message Boards : Islands in the Stream
Subject Topic: Roger Davis is Based On...? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Papa Doble
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Posted: 02 June 2006 at 6:27pm | IP Logged Quote Papa Doble

I'm 100 pages into Islands In the Stream and was wondering who Thomas Hudson's friend, Roger Davis, is based on.  It sure ain't the guy who replaced Pete Duel as Hannibal Heyes on the TV show Alias Smith & Jones... 
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Leo 168
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Posted: 11 June 2006 at 11:14pm | IP Logged Quote Leo 168

re: Roger Davis

I don't have the answer to that one, but I was wondering how Hemingway came up with the name Thomas Hudson. It's been ages since I've read 'Islands'...are there any references to what kind of painting Hudson does?

  Did Hemingway like the paintings of the Hudson River School of which Thomas Cole (1801-1848) was a part of? If he did, he perhaps would've liked the paintings of Charles Harold Davis (1856/7-1933). Likely the wrong tree, but it's good to bark once in a while.

  Regarding his friends that the characters may have been based on...I'll let you know if I spot anything in any bio's.

Cheers,

-Leo Gillis

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Paul Hammersten
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Posted: 13 June 2006 at 9:27am | IP Logged Quote Paul Hammersten

"The entire artistic production of Bosch,consisting of some 70 paintings,is centered upon a few fundamental themes.The principal protagonist is mankind,vividly portrayed as he progresses on his sad journey through temptation,curruption,and sin. The numerous representations of the Last Judgment and of Hell emphasize the inevitable fate of the countless numbers destined for eternal torment.Yet the artist's unrelenting mood of pessimism does occasionally lift to allow a glimpse of salvation,as,for example,in the pictures of hermits and in episodes relating to Christ's pion:the examples offered by the contemplative life of the saints and the meditation on Christ's sacrifice are presented as the sole means of escaping the evil that pervades every aspect of life.Only seen in this light does the teeming,phantasmagorical universe of Bosch,with its infinity of esoteric forms,ume definitive meaning." Alessia Devitini Dufour

I like to meditate on this page when contemplating Hemingway's 'Bosch' work - * Islands In The Stream * and the Bud painting of 'Old Dust For Brains' Custer and his Last Stand that Papa repeatedly writes about.

Where else can one find the Bosch influence on
Hemingway  besides ISLANDS IN THE STREAM?

Best

Paul



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Leo 168
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Posted: 08 August 2006 at 7:50pm | IP Logged Quote Leo 168

It seems to me that Roger Davis is based mostly on Hemingway himself--especially concerning Davis' thoughts on doing himself in.

  Any thoughts on why Hemingway kills off Pauline and his 3 sons (all names changed)? It seemed horrendous at first, but perhaps he wanted to deal with that fear of losing them all because he loved them so much (but maybe Pauline had already died when he wrote it--not sure...and I'm assuming young Tom's death isn't a 'miscommunication' in the plotline. I'm only near the end of the Cuba section).

  Does anyone know how much was cut from the original manuscript by Mary Hemingway and Charles Scribner, Jr.?

  Interesting how Jinny Pfeiffer gets a knock on page 306 (in my library copy) when he refers to a character named Ginny as "ugly". That wasn't very nice.

   Finally, anyone do anything memorable on Hemingway's birthday a few weeks ago? I managed to get hit by a car while standing on a sidewalk (after two cars collided...), but I was able to walk into the ambulance on my own steam. I suppose 'running with the Saab's' isn't anything like running with the bulls...

Cheers.

Leo

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Daughter
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Posted: 15 October 2006 at 8:49am | IP Logged Quote Daughter

I thought it  sounded like Scott Fitzgerald.

Gail

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hijo
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Posted: 16 October 2006 at 11:46pm | IP Logged Quote hijo

Leo, Paul, I think you're both on to something, from different angles.

Bosch: perfect example of using Man vs. whatever. But in Thomas Hudson's paintings, I'm not even sure "man" is depicted...isn't the one he gave a bar owner of a big squall building, the waves crashing etc? Power of God and powerlessness of mankind, perhaps?

As for the Hudson River school, could be. But I'm also thinking more contemporary, and I'm thinking either Henry "Mike" Strater or even Archibald MacLeish, who lest we forget started out as a painter (sharing studio space? Or at least visiting the studio of Gerald Murphy, who was heir to the big paints/pigments company (Mark Cross)).

As for Ginny Pfeiffer, c'mon. Wasn't she the Nazi-appologizing witch?

Esoterica: while a bartender in college, I and a friend devised a form of "Planter's Punch". Consists of any-brand (preferrably Bacardi, of course) dark rum and a small can of pineapple chunks, syrup included. Called "The Thomas Hudson."

Best,
hijo
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Leo 168
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Posted: 17 October 2006 at 11:10pm | IP Logged Quote Leo 168

Gail--maybe you're right. As far as doing himself in, wasn't Fitzgerald more of an attention-getter? Unfortunately, Hemingway seemed to mean it when he dropped those hints in his younger days.

Hijo--I wasn't aware of Jinny's darkest side...she deserved it then. But I believe I'll pass on the chunky rum...unless it's supposed to go in a blender first?

-Leo

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Paul Hammersten
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Posted: 18 October 2006 at 6:30pm | IP Logged Quote Paul Hammersten

In addition to Hieronymus Bosch, Hemingway has Tom praise the paintings of Pieter Brueghel.

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hijo
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Posted: 20 October 2006 at 9:33pm | IP Logged Quote hijo

Roger Davis winds up visiting Tom after being found to be "a little Red."

That's one reason why I suspected a connection to one of his more "red" friends.

To me, this is the book that showed me a father's love for his children and an understanding of their different, distinct personalities and desires to be seen as capable by their obviously strong-willed father.

I think he killed everybody off to show that, eventually, men who don't get involved in things because they feel they may be risking too much will risk everything for the right cause when they've lost the only things they ever really loved.

And the right cause often boils down to helping others who still have more to lose.

Perhaps it's not about being loved? Perhaps its about loving?

Sorry, Leo. The chunks floating in the rum-infused syrup made the thing. They are there to remind us of something - I don't remember what - and blending them out would defeat the purpose...

Best,
hijo
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