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PaulineB
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| Posted: 16 November 2005 at 1:22pm | IP Logged
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Turner's poem is not even comparable to Hemingway's novel. Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises describes life after WWI. Turner encompasses the topic of war, he engulfs it and depicts it in its biological form. Turner's poem focuses on a soldier's final contact with war--death. Turner states, “Bullet, here is where the world ends, every time.” Hemingway's characters survived the war; they escaped the worst part of the war, death. His novel portrays the characters after they have escaped death and have journeyed through Europe. Most of the characters have witnessed death, the crux of Turner's poem. The disccussion of war renders vivid immages of death; therefore, Hemingway's characters avoid the topic of war in their conversations. In the beginning of Hemingway's novel, there is only one mention of war, "I got hurt in the war,’ I said. ‘Oh, that dirty war.' We would have probably gone on and discussed the war and agreed that it was in reality a calamity for civilization, and perhaps would have been better avoided."
It is important to understand the themes revealed throughout the novel. The historical depiction of life after war is necessary in understanding the current mindset of soldiers. While this novel was written more than sixty years ago, it is still important society. Hemingway’s displays the paradigm behavior of the lost generation. Being able to compare the historical war mentality to the modern-day war mentality is vital in the understanding of current situations.
Edited by PaulineB on 21 November 2005 at 5:07pm
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lyzj
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| Posted: 16 November 2005 at 1:23pm | IP Logged
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I believe that is it more important to understand The Sun Also Rises than it is to like it. One can like a book, but if it is not understood it has no meaning. If the novel is not understood, what Hemingway wants to get across will be missed. Turner's poems are different because they have elements of death, while Hemingway's novel has elements of romance and everyday life.
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Christina C
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Willa Cather's idea of introducing characters is an odd one in my opinion... if you introduced the features of them later on, you'd constantly be rearranging the characters in the reader's mind. That would just serve to confuse me, if anything.
But I must admit, that is an interesting thought. I'm not partial to it either; it reminds me of when you read a book that's later turned into a movie.... and you're like, Hey! That actor could NEVER be anything like that character from the book. It just doesn't click anymore. (And besides, like Sam said... it's far too fun to describe everyone! That mischievious sparkle in their eye, whatever.)
Then again, it is said that the imagination's dreams will probably be far more dramatic then anything that could really happen. Afterall, isn't that why we all seem to like fantasy? It holds realms of possibilities, and by withholding some details, Hemingway can lead us to believe far more then he really meant.
I believe we read a quote similar to that somewhere in school... something about how the poet must never state ot what he means. The necessity for enigmatic words... curiosity catches and holds us fast when that happens.
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rbarnett
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| Posted: 16 November 2005 at 1:24pm | IP Logged
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Like many novels written to comment on the political, historical or economical condition of the world, I feel it is important to understand the message of this novel- especially if one wants to learn a variety of portrayals of a time period. By reading a novel like this, one can understand the historical aspects in a three-dimensional, detailed, and interesting way.
As a writer, Hemingway gets his point across that this time period was full of action. He delineates the moral emptiness and isolation in several ways. He shows how people use each other and live for pleasure. (Personally, I think he captures this through the dialoged- not really through detail). Similar to Turner, he portrays the time period with...
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rbarnett
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 strong personal predilections. Turner uses vivid and exagerrated scenes of gore to get his point across. (I agree with Lyzjack that you need to understand the subject matter before the book can affect one's opinion, however).
Hemingway, I wouldn't quite say, is an iconoclast because his beliefs aren't too defiant. He is simply expressing his opinion- a common opinion- in the form of his literature. 
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SeanM
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| Posted: 16 November 2005 at 5:04pm | IP Logged
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I think everyone now has a new outlook on life, or in this case
literature. It doesn't make much sense to like something and not
understand it, but it is possible to understand something and NOT like
it. If any of these iconoclasts could see that our enjoyment of their
novels was only superficial, it would annoy them more than anything
else! Now, if they saw that we learned something from it, even though
we may have suffered through it, they would be happy. So in a strange
way, hating a book can be good for you!
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jeremyc
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| Posted: 16 November 2005 at 5:34pm | IP Logged
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The words of Hemingway as a writer are art, yes, but the subjects, the people floating around in his novel aren't as gripping and engaging to me as others that I have read. I like the way he writes, but not what he writes about.
Turner is drastically different from Turner, not only because of the drastic difference in the depth of description that they go into, but also in how much they care about people - from just glancing at the page, it is possible to see Turner's caring that far surpasses Hemingway.
The novel isn't bad, but I wish it would either hurry up or shut up.
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lynnjack
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| Posted: 16 November 2005 at 7:40pm | IP Logged
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I do not believe it is important to understnad this novel unless you are researching hemmingway. For if one does not understand the meaning behind The Sun Also Rises, than it is irrelevant to read the book. Why waste time reading what someone else calls a 'great work' when you do not understand what makes it so great.
On the matter of importance of understanding The Sun Also Rises, that would be relative to the reader. If the reader were a student having been forced to read this book, then understanding the story would be important when assessments came around. But if you were reading The Sun Also Rises because you wanted to, then you could still enjoy the story without actually understanding it.
"This book was so fun!" a random reader might cry. "I just loved how all Jake and the gang did was drink and be merry!"
Unlikely a Magnet student would say that. 
A random reader could enjoy the story and not care about understnading it or exploring its meaning. a random reader might not even realize there is something to understand. (I wish I had that bliss. But no, I am student.)
Since I am exposed to the fact that there might be something to understand in Hemmingway's work, it would be interesting to find out exactly what there is to understand in The Sun Also Rises. But of course I am not trying to rush you into anything, Weisgerber-san.
I do not think anything of Hemmingway as a writer, I will not even attempt to analyze his book. For I am surely not enjoying the lad's work. Only harsh things will come from me because I do not like the book. But if I were to think of Hemmingway in as a writer while reading book, I would think the lad was drunk on pernod, sherry, or something while he was writing.
Well, of course Hemmingway and Turner are alike, and I will take the honour of pointing out the obvious why: they are both war veterans. Both authors know the pains and horrors of war. Both Turner and Hemmingway show the effects war have around other people. Turner shows death having an effect on the doctor who was unable to save Fields. Hemmingway shows the effect of war on his characters by having Cohn, who has not been in war, rejected by everyone else who has.But where there are similarities, there are bound to be differences.
Another obvious difference I will point out: the two writers are from different time periods. Turner writes directly about some things that happen in war. He writes directly about the wounds and death that many soldiers see in the field. Hemmingway does not write out what happened in the war in The Sun Also Rises. He shows the affects of war with his characters, how war can affect people physically and psychologically. Turner writes in a almost present like way, writing while events are happening. Hemmingway writes in a after like way, writing after the his characters had been in the war. Also, Turner's work was more enjoyable to read than Hemmingway's.
Me and my obsession with war... 
Auf Wiedersehen!
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kaze ni nare kazoekirenu Distress ore ga dakitomeru omae no Loneliness ore tachi wa tsugai no kaze Oneness kono yo ga hatete mo hanarenai
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Alex P
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| Posted: 16 November 2005 at 7:48pm | IP Logged
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Yeah
Turner might be a good writer but I think it’s the topic that he writes about
that intrigues. Turner talks of war and the death of an American soldier and
that’s more interesting to read than about some guy who just parties, drinks
and sleeps. I think the majority of us likes Turner simply because he writes
about something we want to read or find interesting. After all, books are
supposed have a hero who undergoes hardships and tribulation to rise up and
beat up the oppressors. Usually books are supposed to have a special main
character, different from the ho-hum lifestyles of normal people, like the dead
soldier in Turner's poem. Jake just seems to be a ho-hum guy who is distracted
by trivial things.
Also,
Hemmingway and Turner seem to have two different views and reactions war. Few
experiences about war have been revealed in TSAR so far. We do meet the count
who lived through of seven wars, sometimes as a soldiers, sometimes as a
businessman. After showing his guests his arrow wounds, the Count reveals
nothing about his experiences of war. That seems to be a trend so far as the
other war veterans in TSAR do not talk about their experiences either. Turner,
however, seems to relieve himself of the burden by telling an audience about
his experiences in Iraqi and what he has seen.
Still, the characters in TSAR don’t seem to reflect
Hemmingway’s real reaction to war. Even though his characters rarely share
their experiences, Hemmingway was more than happy to relate his battlefield
stories to anyone who would listen, often exaggerating moments and embellishing
stories.
______________________________________
*Place Chinese Flag Here*
Edited by Alex P on 16 November 2005 at 8:47pm
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DariusC
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Hey Gang,
Hemingway's travels led his
works to become more vivid and expressive, an effect of his visual
recollections. His short declarative sentences may be hard for
some to overcome; however, are an essential part of his unique
descriptions. In his The Sun Also Rises, much of the
content stems from his personal familiarity with France and
Spain. Had it not been for this perspective, his novel would
hardly have claimed as much fame. ()
The Characters Brett and Cohn give so much to the plot because of their
interest in travel, a representation of Hemmingway's own love.
Hemingway formal scholar James Nigel
realizes this sense of a worldly perspective and suggests here that
Hemmingway never quite called one particular place home, because he was
such a hermit. "It's just that Hemingway has such a world presence"
(Nigel, http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/books/1999/hemingway/stories/leg end/index.html)
____________________________________________________________ _______
I love the way Hemingway expresses a cultured man's love of TENNIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! COHN RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
REILLAC SUIRAD
Edited by DariusC on 18 November 2005 at 7:27pm
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Topic: Is it important....
