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The Sun Also Rises (Forum Locked Forum Locked)
 Ernest Hemingway Message Boards : The Sun Also Rises
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Andrew S
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:45am | IP Logged Quote Andrew S

Turner uses vivid, graphic descriptions of a bullet as it pierces through a soldier that place you right there, in the scene of the action.  I agree with Stephanie that Turner's style of writing allows you to relate a LOT better to his characters, while it's hard to sympathize with the liquor-filled, fruitless lives of the "lost generation" in Hemingway's story.  In The Sun Also Rises, Hemingway seems to describe the scenery of Paris more clearly than the feelings and thoughts of his characters.  At times, mainly at the beginning of some chapters, I almost fall into the temptation of skipping past the descriptions of Paris or of Jake's walk to whatever place he's going, just so I can get to the character interaction and the dialogues.  Also, since this book is told in first person (as seen by Jake), I find it hard to search between the other characters' words to find out what they are actually feeling.  I wish the book was told in...perhaps, third person omniscient, so Hemingway could tell me (almost vis-a-vis) everything I need to know, as clear as pie - ...if that pie was clear. 

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BrigeshB
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:46am | IP Logged Quote BrigeshB

I feel that when you compare these two authors and the stories they tell, there is a special emphasis on exactly one moment in time. Turner speaks of the bullet being introduced to the bone, gristle, and flesh of a human being. Though an instantaneous moment, there is such vived graphics and details that Tunerner gives that you understand and feel what happens at that exact point in time. He seems like he is challenging that bullet to do its job. The bullet wants to pierce the skin and plunge into human blood and Turner issues the challenge. He can give the bullet everything it needs to get the job done, but it is up to the bullet to finish the job. He speaks of a dying soldier in another poem and the images and visuals she sees before her death. This poem reminds me of a play written by Margaret Edson called "W;t" (Wit). In the play, there is a literature scholar who specializes in the metaphysical poetry of John Donne. She is diagnosed with Level III metastatic ovarian cancer. While the play focuses on the medical profession and their lack of emotional involvement in their patients, we also see our main character face her inevitable death in the face. What you walk away with at the end of the play, is that death is just one moment in time. At the end of the poem as well as in the play, there is an overwhelming death but everything else goes on unaffected as if nothing had changed.

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Samantha S.
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:46am | IP Logged Quote Samantha S.

Turner's poetry was a great read--my goodness, I don't think I've been able to get my hands on anything so descriptive since... William Carlos Williams' "The Red Wheel Barrow." Isn't that sad? Look it up; you'll love it.

Anyway, I thought Turner's poetry was fantastic. It was, of course, very fitting with Hemingway's in the fact that it was rather dreary and dire, but it had a tinge of positive color that I've yet to find in The Sun Also Rises. Christina made a great point; Hemingway's descriptions can almost be described as lacking in comparison to Turner's. He lets you imagine the characters' appearances on your own. Originally, I thought of his lack of descriptions as a purposeful thing, to be honest. Willa Cather's "The Novel Demueble" called for such a thing. She claimed that novels should slowly and descreetly introduce character descriptions, ambience, and surroundings. She compared the novel to a bare stage, and said that something overfurnished (demueble means 'unfurnished') will take away from the plot. Because of her, when I started reading The Sun Also Rises, I took the lack of descriptions as something completely deliberate. (I completely disagree with her, however. One of the things I love the most in both reading and writing is descriptions. How could I possibly go without telling my readers the color of a woman's dress, the curve of her mouth, the shade of her lover's eyes?) Well, regardless, because I tend to prefer descriptions, I happened to very much enjoy Turner's poetry more than many of the elements of Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises. However--follow me on this one--I like The Sun Also Rises more than either of Turner's poems as a whole... It makes sense, I promise. I swear it... Let's see... I'm a big dialogue person; perhaps that will explain it. When a person can write good dialogue, I'm elated. Hemingway might not describe a single thing about anyone, but when they talk, it's fantastic.

Now, when asked whether a person ought to like or understand a novel, specifically The Sun Also Rises, I would like to be myself, as usual, and go with neither! As a writer, I know that I certainly wouldn't mind if my readers liked my books. However, if they don't understand anything about my novel, but they like it blindly, I would be a little aggravated. I take a lot of time and effort when I write, and I have a tendency to be very obscure and dark sometimes. It leaks into my characters' conversations, and many of the events in the novel end up looping back to them and having a greater impact. If people don't see that, a lot of the novel loses its meaning. However, there are some things that don't need to be immediately understood by readers. They could pick up on it later, or simply let it puzzle them completely--sometimes, that's what a writer's going for. So, in effect, while readers should certainly understand some elements about a novel and not be completely clueless, the most important thing still isn't to enjoy it. In my opinion, whether or not a person likes or dislikes The Sun Also Rises, the reader should understand where Hemingway is coming from with what he writes about, and also respect the novel for what it's worth. That's all--out of time. And the internet's dying...



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Lisa C
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:51am | IP Logged Quote Lisa C

Although many people may choose to disagree, Hemingway's work is highly unrealistic and hard for people to relate to because it revolves around a "party all day and all night" kind of attitude.  The whole time his characters are getting drunk and dancing.  I don't know about you guys but i don't know many people who live like that.  This lifestyle may be true to the post-war era but i feel that he overexaggerates it in his novel. 

This is unlike Turner because he tells it like it is, no matter how dark and disturbing it may be.  His highly descrpitive situations allow the reader to relate and put themselves into the story.  He may overexaggerate a little but it only enhances his situation rather than confusing the reader.

 

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samanthan
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 11:00am | IP Logged Quote samanthan

Turners style of writing is a lot different from Hemingway's in that Turner has alot more descriptions in his writings.  Turner uses adjectives and metaphors to create a clear picture in the readers mind, unlike with Hemingway's style of writing where I can barely imagine the setting or the characters.  Another difference between them is that even though Turner stops to describe the picture he still moves at a nice pace and is intense enough to keep me interested, and with Hemingway's style I find it to be a little sluggish and lacking in action.  Both writers express the dislike they have for the wars.  Turner does this by showing graphic images of the battlefields; whereas Hemingway is more subtle in showing his feelings.

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JarretP
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 1:04pm | IP Logged Quote JarretP

I believe "The Sun Also Rises" is extremely important to understand.  Every generation in american history, has been recorded in the literature from that time period.  In order to truly understand history and the factors that shape our lives today, we must understand the past.  "The sun Also Rises" gives insight into the early twenty's when, morals uprightedness took a back seat to love and pleasure.  This time period helps define and explain the next eras in american history.   

When faced with the question,"should "the sun also rises" be understood or liked".  I would respond sayinng that one should instead simply repect the book.  And if you have respect for a piece of literature, you will naturlaly try to understand it.  The porcess of decoding the book might even spark yoru interest.


I believe that Turner and Hemingway have one major stylistic difference.  This difference is how Turner uses an expaned moment for the majority of his poems, while Hemingway seems more objective to his surroundings and leaves the specific details to the reader's imagination.



Edited by JarretP on 17áNovemberá2005 at 10:51pm
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Mrs Weisgerber
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 1:16pm | IP Logged Quote Mrs Weisgerber

I wonder what Hemingway's apostrophe to a bullet might be.
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SeanM
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 1:18pm | IP Logged Quote SeanM

I think Turner is more like T.S. Eliot, and Hemingway is more like Walt Whitman. Turner and Eliot give bold descriptions of everything, while Hemingway and Whitman are a little bit off kilter and misunderstood. Also, Eliot and Turner have some things in common, like Eliot's description of J. Alfred Prufrock being etherized on a table like a patient and Turner's description of Thalia (Thanks for the interesting connection Mrsweisgerber ^_^). Apparently an iconoclast is "One who attacks and seeks to overthrow traditional or popular ideas or institutions" thanks to dictionary.com. Hemingway is DEFINTELY an iconoclast because he defies conventionalty in every sense in The Sun Also Rises, but maybe he's just like that in every novel that he wrote. Could that be True? I don't really know the answer to that question, and o don't think I ever will! 

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Nick P
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 1:20pm | IP Logged Quote Nick P

I do believe that it is important to understand the novel. I say this for a few reasons. first, there really is no point in reading the novel if you are not going to Understand the motive and reasonings behind the writing. Ohterwise you do not get much out of the story (as of now I am not getting too much out of the story). Secondly, in order to fully appreciate the style of writing it is imperative to know about it and to know what it means.

As far as Hemmingway as a writer, he difinitely appears to have a unique style of writing. It is much different than most of the other books I have read. Much of that is due to the fact that Hemingway is one of the writers of The Lost Generation. Altogether they have a style which is very focused on characters, thier everyday lives, and trivial tribulations. Hemmingway is somewhat of an iconoclast because he does have such a unique writing style, but he does not seem to convey any outstandingly different thoughts within his novel. It merely seems to be a story of the lives of a few friends, although I am sure there is something else to it.

The style of the poem Here, Bullet seems like it is actually very different from Hemingway's style of writing. I believe because the poem Here, Bullet is brimming with descriptive detail and accuracy while Hemingway's writing is, to a point, vauge . Also, Brian Turner's poem is much more localized than Hemingway would be. Brian's poem focuses on a very small area, namley the gun and the body, and in a short period of time (milliseconds). In contrast, Hemingway appears to white stories which cover huge areas, often many countries, and occur over weeks or years. If Hemingway was to write an apostrophe to the bullet, he would either state or ask what the bullet's goal in "life" is (to kill) and how its journey had been (supersonic).



Edited by Nick P on 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:49pm
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Brian B.
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 1:21pm | IP Logged Quote Brian B.

Should Ernest Hemingway's "The Sun Also Rises" be understood or liked? As a reader of Hemingway's novel, this is a question that I am pitted against. Though Hemingway's novel continues to unfold as I read it, I do not like the story that is being told. Though he is well known, and though his stylistic form of writing continues to influence many people, I feel as though Hemingway's sense of writing is both vague, and uninteresting. But who am I to judge the works of another man? With my intentions not being to criticize Hemingway's novel, I must state that it is best to understand his novel, rather than to like it. The answer to this question pretty much goes for any topic, not just for this one. For example, a person can like many things, but lack to understand them, but without understanding them, what good is it to liking that something? I know that sounds a bit confusing but here, look, I might not like many things, but if I could understand them, I could then enable myself to build up a greater sense of criticism rather than just entirely rejecting the idea.

When compared to Turner, in my opinion, who do I think is a better writer? Personally, I feel as though Turner is a much better writer. His style of writing by far exceeds that of Hemingway's. Though their styles of writing ultimately distinguishes from one anothers, I'd have to state that Turner's style is much more influential to me, as a writer who is trying to develop a concrete style of writing.    

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