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The Sun Also Rises (Forum Locked Forum Locked)
 Ernest Hemingway Message Boards : The Sun Also Rises
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Mrs Weisgerber
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Posted: 15áNovemberá2005 at 2:03pm | IP Logged Quote Mrs Weisgerber

Is it important to like or understand this novel?  What do you think of Hemingway as a writer, and iconoclast, when you read The Sun Also Rises?  Here is a link to a contemporary (War on Terror) American war poet named Brian Turner.  How do you feel this current-day war veteran and writer is alike or different from Hemingway?

 http://www.alicejamesbooks.org/turner_poem.html

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Pablo
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Posted: 15áNovemberá2005 at 2:41pm | IP Logged Quote Pablo

             I find Mr Turners poem to be much more graphic. It appears to have been written by a generation who is much less concerned with the sanctity of life. 

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SteffanieE
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Posted: 15áNovemberá2005 at 10:50pm | IP Logged Quote SteffanieE

I feel that Turner's poems and style are very different from Hemingway's. Hemingway shows barely any description in his writings but has many clandestine symbols through simple phrases and words. Turner, however, has very clear metaphors that go into great depth. I actually prefer Turner's style and can relate to it more than Hemingway's because of this.



Edited by SteffanieE on 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:45am


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Christina C
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Posted: 15áNovemberá2005 at 11:02pm | IP Logged Quote Christina C

I'm a bit confused as to which of the threads we are to be posting on now... this one, or the Fab Four one?
Anyhow... I really like that poem, heh. Perhaps I'm a bit morbid, but... BIO! YAY!!!

I agree with Steff, Turner's style is more active, more interesting (in my opinion), then Hemingway's overly forced lack of adjective-ness. The barrel as an esophagus, the wishbone clavicle... it all sounds more sophisticated and poetic (duh, but yeah) then Hemingway's dry descriptions. Like we mentioned in class, we're hard pressed to know ANY physical characteristics about the characters in TSAR, and that impedes my visualization of the characters, making it far harder to empathize with them and understand.
Both share the slightly cynical outlook on life, both are opinions formed largely from being war vets, and both seem to have that imminent doom/fate feeling to them. If anything, I never want to see the light of war, if this is what it turns you into.

I dare not say that I think TSAR isn't necessary to understand on a Ernest Hemingway Message Board....and I'm sure that it'll be a fascinating read that'll make me read it again, once I'm done with it.
Ohh, and Sam? You're not a loser, cause we <3 you. =)



Edited by Christina C on 15áNovemberá2005 at 11:38pm


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SagarB
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:25am | IP Logged Quote SagarB

The Poems written by Turner are much more graphic and vivd than TSAR. Hemingways writting is very "to-the-point" and direct. Turner's writing is much more descriptive, and easier to visualize.

I personally like Turners poems better because it is much easier to see teh actions happening in front of your eyes.

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SteffanieE
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:26am | IP Logged Quote SteffanieE

I agree with Christina in return. Hemingway is more discreet in his writings when people fall into insanity. It's more centered on Jake in TSAR because of the generation the book is written in.

Turner, however, shows his blunt-ness because in modern times right now we are allowed these rights of more freedom of speech. And.. going back to my previous post, I guess I can conclude that his style appeals to me more because his writing, poetry, and connections are something I'm more familiar with.

I have to say though, both Hemingway and Turner are wonderful writers for their times. Through Hemingway's writing I can still feel his characters falling into the despair of post-war which in turn has its emotional effects on me. It is important that we understand TSAR so that we understand the development of society, writing, and culture through the times. Seriously, these differences show how much the world has evolved in less than a century.



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HeatherN
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:34am | IP Logged Quote HeatherN

I'm going to have to agree with Christina, however I'm going to be daring and say that it is not necessary to like the novel in order to understand it. Since starting the book I have found that it is very dry and repetitive. It seems to be almost identical to The Great Gatsby. The only main difference is in the writing style. The main characters of both novels - Nick and Jake - are often acting immature, however The Great Gatsby seems to be written in a manner that exagerates this childishness. The Sun also Rises is written in a more adult manner, which makes it - to me - more boring at times. Yet, however much I dislike the novel, I find it possible to understand Hemingway's ideas and how they reflect on the time and his generation. Anti-semitism is one example. As I said in the The Fab Four message board, the anti-semitism in the novel is generated by Hemingway living in Paris when he wrote this novel, just before WWII began. This anti-semitism carried over into his novel, which illustrates the time preiod more realistically. For example, on page 18, Hemingway states, "He had a hard, Jewish, stubborn streak." However demeening this is, it is truthful of life at the time. Due to these observations, I think it is possible for a person to understand Hemingway and still dislike his works.

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alaas
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:34am | IP Logged Quote alaas

Turner's poetry is much more modern. In the time of Hemingway, it may have been construed as too bold or possibly written by a man with no regard for life. It's meaning is more for the later generations and is appreciated thusly.



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amberc
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:39am | IP Logged Quote amberc

On the subject of comparing Hemingway to Turner, I do not think you can. Both are war writers, but their main difference is in how they chose to write. Recalling the west civilization timeline you know realism preceded moderism. Hemingway, a moderism, never goes into detail on any person he mentions. What about Jake- what does look like? Who knows. I'm certain the picture I think of for Jake is not any one else's. Turner, on the other hand, is the polar opposite. Using graphic images and words portrayed in his poem, he creates a heart wrenching war tale. I think this reflects the society we live in. We are obsessed with TV, the media and advertisements, and the products we are attracted to most are the ones that have the most appealing package.

I do prefer Turner's writing style to Hemingway's. The images are real and yes, turn your stomach, but with any good description you feel like you're on the battlefield wounded and going to die.



Edited by amberc on 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:46am
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brittanyd
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Posted: 16áNovemberá2005 at 10:43am | IP Logged Quote brittanyd

I feel both authors show their disturbance about the war.  Turner's is a lot more noticable.  No one can look at the poem and say they do not understand what it is about almost right away.  Hemingway's writing is more subtle, at least in the beginning.  Some issues with World War I can be sensed but it does not quite hit you the way Turner's does.  I agree with Steff that Turner is much more descriptive than Hemingway is and that is why Turner's writing is more intense and in your face. 
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